What am I doing with a blog?

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Creationism in Big Valley Part two: The Ice Years August 21, 2007

Filed under: misc,running — himbly @ 10:25 am

I’ve been wondering what I should feature in my next episode of Those Wacky Creationists. Last night I had my father and his gf over for dinner, and talked about creationism. Then, I went with my friend S for a pint, and talked about creationism. Through both those conversations, I’ve realized that this is the next story I need to relate. Hold on to your hats…it’s a doozy.

Lilithattack and I discussed our strategy in the car. We both knew that we were about to enter a museum entirely dedicated to an idea we were both whole heartedly against, so how to act? Both of us knew we’d be upset at what we saw, did we march up to the curator and demand an explanation? In the end, we decided to be passive. We figured that we didn’t want to get into a full blown argument because it was unlikely we were about to change anyone’s minds in an hour.

However, when we finished all the displays, a volunteer invited us to talk to him. We did and launched into several reasons we thought the museum was bunk. Respectfully, the whole conversation was actually very civil and polite…which I didn’t expect and was a very nice surprise.

I began by telling him that the entire museum was based upon a profoundly flawed idea of what evolution is, exactly. That the science they argue against is often not the same science that evolutionists believe. Man…I actually hate using the term “evolutionists” but it’s easy to use. When I say “evolutionists” I mean “everyone else”.

Now, I’ll go through different parts of this conversation in subsequent posts as I remember them and as they relate to what I’m talking about, but this post is dedicated to the ice shell story. If someone who reads this know, could you please tell me if this is conventionally accepted in creationist circles as true?

It’s a complicated story…bear with me. Here we go:

The man looked at us and said, ‘now, what I’m about to tell you is probably going to seem wild to you.’

“I bet that you’re absolutely right. Tell us, though.”

And he did. He told us that the earth, before the flood, was cloaked in ice. There was a shell…a massive ice shell…that contained the earth within it.

“Above the clouds?”, I asked.

“yes…it would have been difficult to see from earth, but it was somewhere above the clouds.”

He went on to explain that this ice shell caused a different atmospheric pressure and composition. This is what allowed people to live into their 900s (eg. Noah, who built the ark when he was in his 600s). In fact, he told us, this different pressure and composition has been found in bubbles within amber. A scientist (no idea who) extracted the air trapped in a bubble in amber and built a chamber with the same pressure and composition he found in that bubble. In that chamber he managed to grow a cherry tomato tree 14 feet high!!

I will remind you here that everything I’m writing is what he actually said to us.

To any chemists out there I have a question. Is it possible for the composition of air trapped in a bubble in amber to change by certain elements dissolving into the amber? That was my response to part of that argument, but I have no idea if I was right.

Anyway. Cherry tomato trees 14 feet high…yeah. So. This is, he said, what the earth was like pre-flood.

Oh…also…he said that the water of the earth and the water of the sky were separate. In other words, clouds were clouds and puddles were puddles. I asked if that meant there was no cycle of evaporation and then rain..blah blah blah. He told me that since rainbows did not exist pre-flood (actually, ha…I “knew” that) it must mean that, no, there was no such cycle.

Now we get to the flood. “Something hit this shell”, he said punching his fist into his other hand to illustrate. “Something”. I didn’t mention it but ‘something’? We’re talking about how god is the man in complete control and then just ‘something’ hits this earth shell? But, I decided there were other battles to be fought here.

This ‘something’ that hit the earth ice shell smashed the ice and caused heavy rain for 40 days and 40 nights.

See? All perfectly scientific [that’s me talking, not him].

I think that’s enough for this post. In more of a reminder to myself than anything, I will try to remember to relate the part of the discussion about ‘flood mythology’ vs ‘there was a flood’.


8 Responses to “Creationism in Big Valley Part two: The Ice Years”

  1. lilithattack Says:

    I’m certainly relieved there wasn’t a diarama room showing models of fighting parents, video game playin’/drug abusin’ sons, and the daughter crying in her room looking at abortion pamphets – with the message that SCIENCE is to blame!!! (See Kentucky Answers in Genesis Museum)
    Himbly, thanks for relating this portion of our experience, I forgot that he punched the air when he said “something” hit the ice shield. Calling all physicists & astonomers?

  2. Jangari Says:

    I’m hysterically laughing at this. Thankfully, I live in a part of the world where even the most hardened christians have no problem understanding evolution; it’s a complete non-issue. Though with creation-by-stealth Intelligent Design, this may soon change.

    Supratmospheric ice? I mean, I’m not a physicist, but that’s complete rubbish. First of all, despite the fact that it’s very cold up there, solar radiation would melt the ice. Secondly, such an ice-sheet would prevent light from reaching the ground, which is absolutely critical to all life, photosynthesis is the very foundation of the food-chain, also, most mammals generate their required vitamin D using sunlight. Also, without rain cycles, how would the water have gotten into the atmosphere in the first place? God, I suppose.

    Utter lunatics.

  3. himbly Says:

    Jangari! I’m so glad to find out you still check out my blog.

    Yeah…I gotta tell you. The truth is I expected to come across something in that museum that would make me sympathetic to their cause…but there was nothing. I could find nothing nothing nothing. A museum dedicated to their best shot only convinced me more that it was complete bullshit. That realization in of itself was a bit of a mindfuck. I guess I expected something better?

    oh god…don’t even START with the holes in every story. you just wait until I write about the ‘dinosaurs coexisting with humans as early as 900 years ago’…though, I must admit, the ‘supratmospheric ice’ (nice word for it) was my favourite.

  4. Jangari Says:

    I’m still here, don’t worry. But over the past couple of months I’ve been out in the field and the internet connection wasn’t all that crash hot. Trying to watch a YouTube video would have taken hours, and lately, many of your posts have been YouTubeFests. Not that there’s anything inherently wrong with that, but with dial-up, it just ain’t the same.

  5. himbly Says:

    hehe..yeah, that’s what happens when a gal like me has ‘blog writer’s block’…youtube fests.

  6. Jangari Says:

    Well then, it’s good to see you’re back!

  7. himbly Says:

    So, Jangari…it’s true that in your neck of the woods you don’t have this problem? Creationists either don’t exist or don’t try to meddle with the educational system?

  8. Jangari Says:

    If you’d asked me that say, three years ago, I’d have told you that creationism doesn’t exist in Australia, but with Intelligent Design there are people coming out of the woodwork under the ‘scientific objectivity’ guise, and suggesting that ID should be taught alongside evolutionary biology, but they still would never claim to be creationists. Also, it’s very unlikely that we’ll see any such creationism in schools because they really represent only a small minority.

    It seems to only be a North American thing, and that’s curious. It could boil down to the fact that the US was colonised by religious puritans escaping the excesses of the heathenly British, while we were colonised by British and Irish ‘criminals’ (very loose use of the term criminal there) who were not very religious at all.

    However, South Australia, and Adelaide in particular, was settled much later, about 1830 odd, directly by British settlers. It’d be a stretch to put it down to that, but they have a very conservative fundamentalist Christian party there called Family First, who managed to smuggle someone into the senate through a shoddy preference deal in the last federal election. There’s also Hillsong Church, a very large, excessive evangelist/fundamentalist youth-oriented church in Sydney’s bible-belt, and it has some heavy political sway. I’m certain they will eventually push for ID in schools, but seriously, it’ll never take off.

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