probably you’ve seen this already…poor thing.
all I’m gonna say is that I’m starting to have a few twitches and twinges here and there when I hear mention of the following words:
“35″
“november”
“turning”
I thought I was sailing through this…but it might be a doozy. I can’t wait to see if I totally flip out or what.
Ahem.
Okay…this is another part to the creationism in Big Valley series and, in truth, I think this part is neat but I don’t have a quick answer back that starts with “Science!….”
I believe, much like I explained in pt 3, in individual cultures spontaneously forming similar mythologies. The flood mythology that is common throughout different cultures need not be the result of an actual, worldwide flood. It very well could come from the fact that most cultures have experienced the devastation of floods and use that experience to explain other phenomenon. I am, however, not an anthropologist nor a sociologist so if someone out there cares to lend a hand, it would be appreciated.
What I’m also getting at is that you don’t need to see a particular monster to come up with the idea of that monster. Yetis, Sasquach, Big Foot, Abominable Snowman…same monster, different cultures and likely false for all of them. Nessie, The ogopogo, Mokele-mbembe.
I have to admit, though, what I’m about to show you is neat. Would be cool to know where these came from, and I’ve not studied enough about them to know but I’m pretty sure it doesn’t mean that dinosaurs roamed the earth with humans.
The Cambodian Stegasaurus carving.
I can provide you with websites on these, but not much else. I’ve not even had a chance to go into it myself. Do I think that there were stegasaurus…es? …ai? anyone know the plural of stegasaurus? Well, aside from the grammar, no…I don’t think the mighty stegasaurus roamed the earth 800 years ago. Where these carvings come from…no idea. But it is kinda cool. Site 1. Site 2. Site 3. Site 4.
One thing that I can say is even if an animal such as this lasted into the time of humans, so have lots of species from the dinosaur era. My knowlege is rusty on this, but aren’t sharks from that era, too? This still doesn’t provide me with any explanation in the whole ‘young earth’ arena.
Kachina Bridge Dinosaur Petroglyph
This one is interesting. Actually, I will show pics of one more and then I’ll have to post about this again because I’m already finding out some interesting things. I’ll give you two sites for this one. This site is a creationist site. This site, however, is not…and is where I got this photo. This photo is similar to the one that lilithattack and I saw at the museum. It has been doctored though…check it out.
Carlisle Cathedral Dinosaurs
Again, the carving of two supposed dinosaurs in a cathedral.
Yeah…I’m going to leave this one here and come back to it because I’m already learning new stuff to talk about. Give me your thoughts on any of these, or others.
Here…I”m going to kick in another site. These links are as much for me as they are for you, gentle reader.
To begin this week’s romp, I need to thank lilithattack. She just put this in my comments, but I think it needs to be out for all to see:
I’m not going to go so heavy with the youtube this week, but I”ve got two more good ‘uns. One by writer David Sedaris:
And another by his sister Amy Sedaris:
Did I once swim out of my daddy’s privates?
It’s a small peeve and one that certainly leads to funny jokes such as the one I just linked to from Landover Baptist Church and Bertram on Family guy. But it still bugs me.
We all know that to make a baby that two gametes, one male/sperm and one female/egg, meet to form a zygote which eventually becomes you, your little sister or your baby brother.
I find it interesting that, in popular culture, we often refer to the sperm as a tiny tiny version of the baby swimming around in the father’s testicles. We anthropomorphize the sperm but not the egg. The egg is the ‘goal’ or the ‘destination’ of the sperm, but often seen as devoid of ‘baby making’ material. This leads, logically, to the mother’s role as nothing but an incubator for a baby that is entirely the father’s. Which, as we all know, is bullshit. It almost feeds into the idea that, as a society, we’re so freaked out that men don’t make babies that we compensate.
Just interesting. Any thoughts?
My June post on creaky voice seemed to be somewhat of a hit. Y’all ought to be ashamed of yourselves because the only reason I drew you in was because I seemed as though I was going to talk about Paris Hilton. ha!
Blackmana (blog now gone) mentioned recently that he had heard a young man do creaky voice. This was news to me but I have to report, I’ve heard it now. Interestingly enough, the first male where I noticed it was our brand new phonetics prof. Ironic because it was the old one who pointed it out to us/me. Also, I noticed it in the voice of Ira Glass and some other announcer on my current favourite podcast “This American Life“.
(holy crap..that was the first time I’ve ever seen his picture and now my sort of crush is full blown…dang.)
I love Ira Glass (even more so within the past 5 minutes) and I love This American Life. The creaky voice phenomenon has now been reduced only to a faint irritation in my books. Is that shallow of me??
This one is a bit more difficult to write because it is not my intention to make the man with whom we discussed issues of creationism (and there’s plenty) look like a dork. I am again simply relating what he told us and my/our reaction to it. We drove north to a small town with the sole intent of going to this museum, paying our $5 and having some questions answered. If the staff there cannot do so, that is not my problem. I can only report on what I heard.
Our conversation was too quick to really get ahold of any issue and hash it out. Partly because there were so many issues. So freaking many. Also, partly because there’s only so much you can do when you can’t even agree fundamentally on…well…anything. I call myself agnostic mainly because I am continually questioning the idea of an intelligent being ’somewhere out there’…or maybe not even ‘out there’… and fully believe that there are more things in heaven and earth than thought of in my philosophy, Horatio. The one thing, however, that I have settled on is that I cannot believe in the existence of a Christian god (nor Islamic, nor Jewish, for that matter). I say ‘cannot’ because I’ve seen blogs that treat athiests and agnostics as if they’re stubborn children who are just unwilling to accept the idea of a supreme being. That is not at all the case. If I were to try..and if I were to say I believed in christianity and a christian god…I would be as false as a homosexual pretending to be straight or vice versa (the obvious difference being that homosexuality is likely innate and belief systems are not). There is nothing in the christian representation of ‘god’ that rings true to me and I can’t help it.
Anyway…the point of that digression is that when you come from a place where you can’t see how someone can even believe in a god, let alone create false arguments and present false evidence against a fairly scientifically solid theory such as evolution in the name of ‘him’, how can you find common enough ground to really get at the meat of the discussion…in an hour or so?
He started with the idea that most cultures (what ‘most’ means, I’m not sure…but we understood what he was getting at) have a flood story. How could that be without there actually being a flood. I told him a little story:
When I was a kid, I used to wonder if I was part of a giant experiment and, in fact, everyone except me was an incredibly sophisticated robot and I was being observed for my reactions to certain, pre-determined and designed situations. I have since found out that this is not ~that~ unique as my father, my aunt, and a handful of my friends had the same thoughts when they were small. In fact, isn’t that Jim Carrey movie The Truman Show a similar concept? Now, my dad, my aunt…it is possible that I had somehow got it from them…but I had no contact with my friend’s parents (nor the friends themselves) back then…and vice versa. It is possible for more than one person to come up with the same concept without using a ‘handing down of the legend’ explanation.
Couple this with the fact that floods are incredibly devastating and common throughout the world…you see where I’m going with this?
This conversation lead to the idea that dinosaurs (as we have come to call them) existed at the time of humans. Now, I couldn’t figure out whether they existed until about 900 years ago or exist now…that was something that lilithattack and I couldn’t quite nail down, though I think we moved quickly on to more interesting things. I will have to write more in detail about the whole ‘dinosaurs existing until the times of Shakespeare’ thing in another post…it is very interesting and I need to do some more research to detail it properly. For this post, I only want to focus on what the volunteer at the museum said to us. Again, don’t want to insult the man himself because he was very polite, but consider that he is volunteering and, well, when I’ve volunteered, I’ve been trained…so I’m assuming he got a bit of a briefing before the let him loose in the museum on his own.
He mentioned ‘people from different cultures’ with their own stories of sightings of dinosaurs. People would come back to town, camp, villages, whatever with tales of lizard-like monsters.
(Oh…it was also written on a plaque that dinosaurs were called ‘dragons’ in those olden days…)
Yes. That is definite evidence for the existence of dinosaurs during the time of humans. Because, as we all know, humans never lie, create stories, nor exagerate. Yetis, the Ogopogo, Nessie, dragons, Jenny Greenteeth, Peg Powler, the Easter Bunny and Santa are all real things because someone saw them and told others.
He told us this story (again, I’m relating this as faithfully as possible). There were these 5 men and they went fishing. They were attacked and 4 of the men fell into the water. The remaining man heard the screams of his companions and made his way back to shore…however, he eventually “went mental”.
…
…
…
huh?
All we were missing at that point was the sofa-fort, cheetos, and a flashlight held under his chin.
In his defense, I think he may be kicking himself for that one…I sure hope he is.
Dear Diary,
THE cutest thing happened today. I have been making wristbands for my friends gerbils and C (and myself, of course). Yesterday I made 3 for C because he is going to France on Friday (he is SOOOO lucky!!). Today I went shopping for a dress with my grandmother and my mum. Of course I wore one of the wristbands that I knit for myself…it is argyle with blue and green yarn. It’s SOOOOO cute. Anyway, so Nanny asked me about it which was SOOOO cool because NO ONE has mentioned it today and I LOVE it and they woudn’t know fashion if it smacked them in the face so I’m all like, ‘yeah..I knit it’ and she was like, ‘I like dis one’. I happened to have the three I was going to give C in my purse (I totally was supposed to meet him today but blew him off. I’m so mean.) so I showed them to my 91 year old grandmother. She picked one and we both wore argyle wristbands for the rest of the time we were together. She loves hers. She’s SOOOO cool!
Anyway, I’ve got homework to do. Bye diary!!
xoxoxox
(heart)
(kisses)
PS. I love Simon LeBon!!
I’ve been wondering what I should feature in my next episode of Those Wacky Creationists. Last night I had my father and his gf over for dinner, and talked about creationism. Then, I went with my friend S for a pint, and talked about creationism. Through both those conversations, I’ve realized that this is the next story I need to relate. Hold on to your hats…it’s a doozy.
Lilithattack and I discussed our strategy in the car. We both knew that we were about to enter a museum entirely dedicated to an idea we were both whole heartedly against, so how to act? Both of us knew we’d be upset at what we saw, did we march up to the curator and demand an explanation? In the end, we decided to be passive. We figured that we didn’t want to get into a full blown argument because it was unlikely we were about to change anyone’s minds in an hour.
However, when we finished all the displays, a volunteer invited us to talk to him. We did and launched into several reasons we thought the museum was bunk. Respectfully, the whole conversation was actually very civil and polite…which I didn’t expect and was a very nice surprise.
I began by telling him that the entire museum was based upon a profoundly flawed idea of what evolution is, exactly. That the science they argue against is often not the same science that evolutionists believe. Man…I actually hate using the term “evolutionists” but it’s easy to use. When I say “evolutionists” I mean “everyone else”.
Now, I’ll go through different parts of this conversation in subsequent posts as I remember them and as they relate to what I’m talking about, but this post is dedicated to the ice shell story. If someone who reads this know, could you please tell me if this is conventionally accepted in creationist circles as true?
It’s a complicated story…bear with me. Here we go:
The man looked at us and said, ‘now, what I’m about to tell you is probably going to seem wild to you.’
“I bet that you’re absolutely right. Tell us, though.”
And he did. He told us that the earth, before the flood, was cloaked in ice. There was a shell…a massive ice shell…that contained the earth within it.
“Above the clouds?”, I asked.
“yes…it would have been difficult to see from earth, but it was somewhere above the clouds.”
He went on to explain that this ice shell caused a different atmospheric pressure and composition. This is what allowed people to live into their 900s (eg. Noah, who built the ark when he was in his 600s). In fact, he told us, this different pressure and composition has been found in bubbles within amber. A scientist (no idea who) extracted the air trapped in a bubble in amber and built a chamber with the same pressure and composition he found in that bubble. In that chamber he managed to grow a cherry tomato tree 14 feet high!!
I will remind you here that everything I’m writing is what he actually said to us.
To any chemists out there I have a question. Is it possible for the composition of air trapped in a bubble in amber to change by certain elements dissolving into the amber? That was my response to part of that argument, but I have no idea if I was right.
Anyway. Cherry tomato trees 14 feet high…yeah. So. This is, he said, what the earth was like pre-flood.
Oh…also…he said that the water of the earth and the water of the sky were separate. In other words, clouds were clouds and puddles were puddles. I asked if that meant there was no cycle of evaporation and then rain..blah blah blah. He told me that since rainbows did not exist pre-flood (actually, ha…I “knew” that) it must mean that, no, there was no such cycle.
Now we get to the flood. “Something hit this shell”, he said punching his fist into his other hand to illustrate. “Something”. I didn’t mention it but ’something’? We’re talking about how god is the man in complete control and then just ’something’ hits this earth shell? But, I decided there were other battles to be fought here.
This ’something’ that hit the earth ice shell smashed the ice and caused heavy rain for 40 days and 40 nights.
See? All perfectly scientific [that's me talking, not him].
I think that’s enough for this post. In more of a reminder to myself than anything, I will try to remember to relate the part of the discussion about ‘flood mythology’ vs ‘there was a flood’.
Here I sit. Sunday night with a glass of wine in front of the ol’ bloggity.
The wine is not so much for enjoyment tonight as it is for loosening the noggin’ ’cause I’ve got a bunch to say. Let’s see how this goes. I’ll start with today.
Today was quite a proud day for me as I managed for the first time in my life to run a 10K race without stopping even for a moment. If there’s a real runner reading this, that may be a ‘huh? proud? why?’ statement, but for me…although I’ve been running (badly) for a long time, I’ve finally achieved this much. Whew. I’m effing sore.
Also in wimpy news, I ended up sitting in front of the tv for the rest of the day…periodically falling asleep.
But that’s not what I actually came to talk about. What I’m here to talk about Creationism. I’m here, more specifically, to talk about my trip to the Creation Science Museum in Big Valley, Alberta with my dear friend, lilithattack.
To be honest, I have a lot of thoughts about this museum and so it may take a post or two to get them out. I think I’ll go with the “general overview” tactic right now to be followed with some more detailed information later on. Also, I’m gonna have to be honest. I can’t find it in myself, especially after yesterday, to respect creationist views in any way. That’s actually what drove me to go. Although I knew that my own opinion would not be swayed, I wanted to find one thing…one shred…that would make me understand why anyone would take such a giant leap into ridiculousness. I found nothing.
The Creation Science Museum in Big Valley is a garage-like structure converted into a small museum dedicated to Creation “Science” which, it seems, focuses on debunking evolution rather than focusing on the biblical aspect. This is done through a complete misunderstanding of what evolution is.
Lilithattack read a passage to me from a plaque on the wall that we both came to see as the very kernel upon which this entire misunderstanding was based. Although, I can’t remember what it said exactly, I think I can accurately paraphrase. If you believe in God…the Christian God…and if you want to believe that he is omnipotent, omniscient, and perfect then you might want to believe that what he creates is perfect. If this is the case, nothing can be improved upon. If you see evolution as an improvement of a species, it follows that if it is true, that species cannot have been ‘created’ perfect. The passage lilithattack read to me essentially related this idea that a species could only ‘degrade’ rather than ‘improve’. Never the other way around. You can’t become “more perfect”.
So…in order to keep with this one thought, so many leaps away from reason and rational thought have been taken and taught. Every tiny hole in scientific thought regarding the earth as older than 6000 years (as if science thinks of itself as airtight normally) was exploited and questioned but in the most unusual ways. In fact, it was so far away from lilithattack and my way of thinking we were unable to skim anything we read. The arguments would pop out from a distant left field that, unless you read carefully, they would leave you reeling from the sucker punch. I promise you we tried to see it their way and could not find it within even the tiniest bit of us to do so.
I’ll write more on this subject as there is plenty more to tell, but for now I’m going to pack it in. I’ve got a long day of hobbling around on my sore knees tomorrow.
Truth is, I was a liberal minded parent’s dream when it came to losing my virginity. I was the girl who “fell in love” (c’mon, I was 17…I was in deep deep like) and waited until she was ready before she agreed to let a very kind boy…well, you know…nail me.
It’s the truth, though. He was as sweet a boy as I could have found back then and I was completely ready.
But…if I wasn’t ready, I wish this little number would have been available to me.
(sorry, I can’t figure out how to imbed the vid)
After seeing that, I would have spraypainted “Jailbait” to the back of my jacket and ran as quickly as I could to the first shady tavern. I would have agreed to participate in acts that would have flustered Vladimir Nabokov. I would have wanted nothing to do with my virginity if that guy was going to sing about it.
(found at Pandagon)
For reals.
It looks like these two Irish archaeologists found a way to brew ale like the ancients.
My first thought, as I am far more of a Strongbow girl than a beer drinker, was ‘ugh…gross’. But, apparently for beer drinkers, it tasted good:
“It tasted really good,” said Mr Quinn, of Moore Archaeological and Environmental Services (Moore Group). … “It tasted like a traditional ale, but was sweeter because there were no hops in it.”
Well, bully for you, but I still say gross.
Fulacht fiadh – horseshoe shaped grass covered mounds – are conventionally thought of as ancient cooking spots. … Mr Quinn said it was while nursing a hangover one morning – and discussing the natural predisposition of all men to seek means to alter their minds – that he came to the startling conclusion that fulachts could have been the country’s earliest breweries.
Uh, beg pardon? If it weren’t the predisposition of women to also seek means to alter their minds, 50% of us wouldn’t have been born. hehe..but anyway, I wish my hangovers would produce such good ideas. However, perhaps hangovers aren’t exactly conducive to insights on infant speech. Aside from the fact you couldn’t pay me to drink beer made in an ancient grass covered mound…good on you, fellas.
Saturday, gerbils, lilithattack (aka platypus) and I are going on a field trip to the Creationist museum in our province. Hurrah!! I am totally going to pack some jesus sandwiches (I stuck them in the fridge 3 days ago but they’ve seemed to have gone missing!!!).
Okay..yeah…I woke up 20 minutes ago. You’re not getting better jokes out of me right now.
There are often times in my life where I fix my mind against something…where I draw that line in the sand…only to have the universe eff with me and stuff it in my face in another form. Example:
Yesterday, after lilithattack and I decided that Saturday was indeed creationist museum day (then onto the gopher holes) I went about my business then scuttled off to school.
Later on in the day, I was in spanish class where my instructor, a man who I consider very clever, funny and smart, told us that he didn’t believe in evolution. He was christian and believed the world was created but if, in our compositions on the final, we were to mention evolution (I’m not sure how it will come up…it came up in the example he gave us) he would definitely respect our opinion. Wtf??
Now…this instance hasn’t changed my mind about the debate itself. My position on the topic remains steadfast against creationism or “intelligent design” and I still think those who believe in creationism are confused and stubborn. However…those people that I pictured creationists were…it’s no longer true. I am forced, out of genuine affection and admiration for some individuals, to respect their views. I am puzzled, though. What on earth would make them abandon their senses on this particular subject?
I’ve got a post I’m currently working on but I”m finding it difficult to express, so instead I am studying for my spanish final.
…and when I say ’studying for my spanish final’ I, of course, mean that I”m checking out youtube and need to share. Today’s feature is female vocalists and how effing amazing the following ones are:
First up is someone I’ve featured on this blog a few times. The lovely Chaka Khan:
Here is someone my next fixation will probably be centered on. Erykah Badu. I can’t choose between these vids, so I’m posting both:
of course, there’s Me’shell
and Amy, who I hope one day enters the ranks of the other women featured in this post:
And speaking about the ranks of the other women in this post, Nina Persson fits right in:
Who did this beautiful soundtrack for this *at a loss for the proper adjective* film: